Advice and a point in the right direction

Discussion in 'Performance Enhancing Drugs' started by Sohal89, Oct 10, 2014.

  1. Sohal89

    Sohal89 Senior Member

    I'm pretty screwed on in terms of what I need in terms of macros per day. Just find it hard to hit them during full uni days. However, more often than not I do tend to hit my macros by the end of the day. 

    My daily intake/goal is the following

    3010 Calories split at 60% Carbs, 25% Protein and 15% Fats which equates to 

    452g Carbs, 188g Protein and 50g Fats

    My carbs are high as I struggle to gain weight.

    Current weight is 135lbs

    BF% - Not sure as I haven't checked recently, but here is a recent pic.


    In terms of drugs/steroids I have been looking into taking them but will wait till I finish uni which will be mid 2015. 

    N.B even though I say mid 2015, I won't be going on them unless my diet is on point and I know it is on point. This I will measure the basic way of weighing scales and BF% calculating. Ideally I would like to be between 65-70kg at 10% BF (I have been as low as 6/7% in the past) before I start using.

    I just wanna get as much info from people who have used steroids the CORRECT way before I do decide to take the plunge.

    I was looking into running Test E with Anavar. Running each at 10-12 wks and 8-10 wks respectively. Followed by 2 weeks off and then 4-6week pct. 

    The PCT part i'm not too sure about, although I have been looking at clomid, nolvadex and liv 52. Also not sure about whether I would need HCG if I did decide to run this cycle.

    Any help and advice is greatly appreciated. 
  2. Arterial Dan

    Arterial Dan Administrator Staff Member

    Meal timings don't matter.

    It doesn't really matter when you get the cals in. Just get them in. If you don't eat before training, and then have a massive meal post-workout after uni, that is still gonna work. 

    Use low fat/low fibre food choices and you will get cals in easier.

    If your appetite is really bad, then add in some cardio.

    If you're still struggling I would use an AIO product such as USN Muscleful - use it intra-workout, add a little cinnamon

    Blended food is much easier to eat than diced food.


    200g couscous & 250g ground (minced) turkey breast is easier to eat than 200g sweet potato and 200g diced turkey

    Keep the carb intake low on non-training days, do pro/fat. That will spare your insulin sensitivity.
    skinnyjoe313 and Sohal89 like this.
  3. Sohal89

    Sohal89 Senior Member

    Do intra workout supplements actually work? The only supplements i have ever taken are protein shakes, creatine, agmatine, N0X Pills and PWO. And I've dropped em all currently and just sticking with protein and creatine. I did however try Cellucor BCAA intra workout shake.

    Thanks for the heads up on blended vs diced!!

    I am looking to start some cardio, most likely on the weekends after work.
  4. Arterial Dan

    Arterial Dan Administrator Staff Member

    The intra workout supps are not for any kind of 'supplement benefit', so it's not a case or wheter supplements do or don't work.

    It's a just a time when you can sink a fair amount of carb/protein (zero fat/zero fibre), and drive it where you want it to go, instead of into fat cells.

    Personally I train fasted (bcaa beforehand) , but I'm not struggling to increase cals, I'm restricting them. - > Just a matter of tailoring your routine to reach your specific goal.
  5. Arterial Dan

    Arterial Dan Administrator Staff Member

    In terms of steroids - you are the type of physique I would advise to never use steroids.

    I look like a turd when natural. I get a massive boost from steroids.

    You have so little to gain from them by comparison.

    You look great now. 

    You're not going to get much from steroids compared to the sides/expense you will endure.
  6. trapman

    trapman Senior Member

    you seem to have your head screwed on and have good genetics for low body fat. If you do go down the AAS road i think you will improve on muscle size quite nicely without all the bloat and fat added. Keep us updated please.
    Mad triceps by the way.

  7. trapman

    trapman Senior Member

    What you studying out of interest.
  8. Roy@/_

    Roy@/_ Elite Member

    Maybe if you wrote a bit about long term goals we could equate those to steps you might of might not want to take to get there?
  9. Sohal89

    Sohal89 Senior Member

    When you say I'm not going to get much from steroids, is that because I haven't reached my max genetic potential or because I already have a decent foundation to work with naturally?

    Cheers mate, my back and triceps are probably my standout areas. Chest n Biceps are lacking a lot!

    Electrical and Electronic Engineering

    I'm not looking to get to the point of being pro, like most of us, I'm just looking to develop my physique to the point where I am satisfied with it. I would also like to compete at some point in some form of amateur competition like the NABBA or UKBFF or maybe even Miami Pro.
  10. Arterial Dan

    Arterial Dan Administrator Staff Member

    Because you already look good without them. You look better than some of the PED users on this forum already.

    I'm not saying you won't look more impressive on them - you would.

    But the difference it would make for you, compared to another person....

    Take two friends

    friend 1 is poor as fuck

    friend 2 is rich as fuck

    Give them both $10,000

    It will make a huge difference to Friend1's life. 

    Friend2 mightn't even notice he has an extra 10k

    In terms of physique, you are friend2 here.

    I wouldn't expect you to listen to me on this. You're young and you want to try them and so on.

    Just like I did.

    The difference was I looked like a bag of shit and used PEDs to 'correct' how I looked.

    You'll just be using them to 'enhance' how you look.

    Do the risks outweigh the benefits in your case? 

    (If I had looked as good as you do, I probably wouldn't have started gear until I was 30+, if at all.)
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2014
  11. Sohal89

    Sohal89 Senior Member

    I appreciate all that you have said there. Makes perfect sense to me.

    And of course I will take on board what you said, it's the whole point I asked the question, so thank you for that.

    To be honest, what you have said is very similar to what my girlfriend and what a lot of my family have said.

    I probably would be better off waiting till my 30's. Another 5 years natural would be the better option i guess.

    This is probably the 'immature' side of me saying I don't wanna wait to try atleast one cycle. Just to see how it does affect me.

    Really appreciate the advice!
  12. Sohal89

    Sohal89 Senior Member

    Just a clarification from the previous reply, I didn't mean immature in the sense that "OHH LOOK STEROIDS GET BIG LIKE ARNIE", I meant it more in the sense of curiosity and not wanting to wait, as I'm sure you can appreciate and know that not a lot of people do wait. I'm not the type to get carried away with any kind of drug and start abusing. For me, my first cycle would purely be to see what difference it could/would make and I would take it from there.
  13. Arterial Dan

    Arterial Dan Administrator Staff Member

    Not immature at all, I fully understand the temptation. I have been there.

    Just bear in mind, there is no such thing as 'one cycle'.

    If you cross the rubicon, there is no turning back. Regardless of what you think now.

    I was very anti-steroids and also planned just 1 cycle 'to develop my physique to the point where I was satisfied with it' and then stop.....Here I am 10+ years later.

    I did go back to natty training for a while due to health concerns and fertility issues, but one cannot "enjoy" it again, just endure it.

    If I were having this discussion with you several years ago, I would tell you - "What are you waiting for?"

    When I did my first cycle or three, I wished I had started earlier.

    Things have changed in the most recent years however.

    Now we are seeing the consequences.

    Steroid abuse is insidious, particularly if you are involved in bodybuilding forums and invested on a day to day basis.

    Your norms will subtly, but rapidly & dramatically, change.

    Don't misread this as me being anti-steroids. I am pro-steroids, in the right circumstances.

    If someone like me 10 years ago came on the forum, I might even encourage someone to use them.

    You will probably use anyway, and I don't blame you.

    Maybe you will remember this post in 10 years time when you are speaking from experience and advising the younger generation not to get sucked into this game :)

    Good luck mate, I'm sure we'll being seeing more of each other around the forum anyway.
  14. Sohal89

    Sohal89 Senior Member

    I totally understand what you are saying with the temptation. The thigh I'm worried about the most is that what if it doesn't suit my body. How hard is it to address the issue and fix the problems. In terms of abuse, that is one thing i have always been against. Like you, steroids in a controlled manner is ok, in my non experienced mind.

    I mean for example I was thinking of my first cycle to be Test E and Anavar. However now i've read a first cycle should be test only. And then move on from there. Again, the dosage would be about 400mg test a week and 80-100mg anavar. This is from what I've read is a good starter.

    Maybe you would be able to advise otherwise.

    I'm more worried about geting the PCT spot on so not to get the post problems.

    Also, my mind is still not fully made up, there is still some doubt in my mind. I know people who are on em and are fine, but like you said, you deal with the issues 10, 15 maybe 20 years down the line. Like some i know. But that someone did dbol and winstrol for a first cycle. No proper diet. No research. No pct.

    Thanks for all your advice and guidance. Really do appreciate it. Defo see you more on this forum, seems like a really friendly place!
  15. Arterial Dan

    Arterial Dan Administrator Staff Member

    There are different schools of thought on the first cycle.

    Some say it should be reasonably heavy because 'you never gain again like you do on your first cycle'

    Personally I disagree.

    With your early cycles, I think the object should be to try different meds in small doses so you can figure out what meds you can use and what meds you cannot use.

    You say you are curious as to how to body would react, so taking that into account, here are my thoughts:

    There are 4 base/core injectable steroids

    Testosterone - typically used in bulking cycles due to water retention

    Nandrolone - typically used in bulking cycles due to water retention

    Winstrol - typically used in cutting cycles

    Trenbolone - Used in both bulking and cutting cycles

    There are 3 base/core oral steroids

    Dianabol - typically used in bulking cycles due to water retention

    Anadrol  - Used in both bulking and cutting cycles

    Winstrol - typically used in cutting cycles

    These steroids will score high in either androgenic or anabolic ratings.

    Cycles are typically built around these.

    There are other steroids which could be considered ancillary steroids, they're not as androgenic or as anabolic, but they're also more prone to being faked and so on.

    So knowing what I know now, if I was to plan my first cycle again,

    Week 1-4

    I would start with a base of Test Prop, at 100mg, every other day. 

    Run that in isolation for 4 weeks.

    Diet: High pro/medium carb/low fat.

    Training: Volume routine

    Week 5-8

    At the 4 week mark, add in NPP @ 100mg every other day.

    Diet: High Pro/High carb/low fat 

    Training: Strength routine

    Week 9-12

    At the 8 week mark, drop the NPP & add in Trenbolone Ace @ 100mg every other day. 

    Diet: High Pro/Low Carb/Medium fat

    Training: Recomp (strength & fat loss simultaneously)

    Week 13-16

    At the 12 week mark, drop the Tren A & add in Winstrol (oral) @ 100mg every other day.

    Diet: High Pro/Medium Fat/Zero Carb

    Training: Fat loss and aesthetics.

    Week 17-20

    At the end of 16 week mark, drop the winny and just run the rest prop in isolation again for 4 weeks.

    Diet: High pro/medium carb/low fat.

    Training: Volume routine

    At the 20 week mark, drop the test prop and start pct

    PCT is as follows:


    So it looks like this

    Week 1-20: Test prop @ 100mg Every other day

    Week 5-8: NPP @ 100mg EOD

    Week 9-12: Tren A @ 100mg EOD

    Week 13-16: Winstrol (oral) @ 100mg EOD


    Then stay off for 6 months.

    After 6 months, Cycle 2

    looks like this (same as cycle 1, same training goals, same diet goals, but now adding in orals)

    Week 1-20: Test prop @ 100mg Every other day, 37.5mcg T3 Every day

    Week 5-8: NPP @ 100mg EOD, Dbol @ 20mg on training days only

    Week 9-12: Tren A @ 100mg EOD, winstrol (oral) @ 25mg on training days only

    Week 13-16: Winstrol (injectable) @ 100mg EOD, Anadrol @ 50mg on training days only


    PCT (same as the first time)


    then 6 months off again.